Curse

Pevil Lihatuh · Jan 01, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

ok i read a couple but then I got bored

lol. So my opinions:

There's nothing wrong with eles. The problem is, despite GW attempt to get away from it, 90% of players retain the old MMO thing of "omg this is the best class, anything else is teh suxxor!"

For many months now, Rangers, Mesmers and Necros have been having problems getting into groups because "everyone knows that Warriors, Nukers and Healers are all we need". Which is total rubbish of course.

Recently it seems that its not the class people hate, its become builds. If you're not a prot bond monk, or an iway warrior, or an SS necro, you can go to hell. If you don't have x skill with you, I'm not interested *kick*

If you don't like playing a type of char, don't. If someone says you suck, go find someone NICE to party with. Whats the point of playing an ele? The same as any other character.

To have FUN.

antialias02 · Jan 01, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

For many months now, Rangers, Mesmers and Necros have been having problems getting into groups because "everyone knows that Warriors, Nukers and Healers are all we need". Which is total rubbish of course.

Recently it seems that its not the class people hate, its become builds. If you're not a prot bond monk, or an iway warrior, or an SS necro, you can go to hell. If you don't have x skill with you, I'm not interested *kick*

I think this is where the real problem now lies: perceptions. People percieve that Fire Eles are no good, and of course before the patch the only good Ele was a Fire Ele, so.... Eles are now useless.

However, I disagree that Necros and Rangers are getting a short end of the deal. For every advertisement I see for a nuker, I see another for SS or MM Necroes, or perhaps Battery Necroes.

And Trapping Rangers are never without a group.

But I can't remember the last time I saw "GLF Mesmer" in the town local chat window, and so while I agree that there is a lot of build-hate going on, there's also a lot of people who are shunning some classes they consider "useless." Or, at least, not beneficial to their ends.

I mean, even my Mesmer *Nuker* has a hard time getting into and staying in a group - espcially after I tell them I'm not an Echo nuker. You should see their heads spin. Isn't there a modicum of trust anymore?

megalomaniac_mutant · Jan 01, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I dont belive this! What is it with you guys and the eles?
Just leave the poor guys alone!!!

Pevil Lihatuh · Jan 01, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

yeah antialias, people now realise necros and rangers are good. But that was my point. First we were rubbish. Now we're good IF we're trappers, or SS, or battery... anything else and we're still rubbish

With the ele, they WERE good, now they're all rubbish. or thats what people think.

ShadowStorm · Jan 02, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I haven't really read most of the second page, but I noticed a lot of people on the first page saying that slowing enemies down in PvE wasn't effective. That the only reason you'd want to slow an enemy down would be so that you could run away or to prevent a warrior mob from chasing one of your teammates. Well, has anyone realized that slowing down an enemy also stops that enemy from running away from you?

What does the AoE nerf do? It makes enemies run away from you.

Let's all take a lesson from the Ice Imps in the lower shiverpeaks. They cast Mind Freeze on you, then while you can't move effectively, they cast an AoE interrupt spell: Maelstrom. Even if you start running the second they hit you with Freeze, you still get hit 2-3 times by the Maelstrom. PvE mobs don't start running until the AoE is in full swing.

So, if you cast an AoE slow spell like Deep Freeze before you cast that Meteor Storm, all the enemies on your tank are going to stick around for nearly the whole Storm. Now that sounds like the spell that we knew before the AoE nerf.

AoE DoT spells aren't dead and useless, you just have to be smart and use water magic too.

Viruzzz · Jan 02, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Knockdown? Knockdown is good for defense too you know. No other class can knockdown from a range.

no its not. shield of judgement/signet of judgement knocks down at any range too.

crimsonfilms · Jan 02, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

What cast 2 spells to own a mob of level 24 monsters?

Don't be silly. I want it in 1 spell. Hell I want Eviscerate the entire mob, while the ranger use super elite Barrage + apply poison, while the monk does Word of Party Healing and Party Shield of Regen by the prot monk.

It's called intertia. The MS on a mob while they sit there was rather mindless. A simple water ele spike at the same time as yoru fire damage is extremely effective. But of course people just want their 2 fire nukers and pick up the IDS.

:/

Everyname Is Taken · Jan 02, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Some downsides to MM. Gotta wait till they get enough corpses to become effective. Eles do a lot of dmg from the start. At the end of the battle you gotta wait till the MM finishes up using the corspes. And then you got those upsessive MMs who insist on not letting any of their minions die, so you stop every 10 seconds to heal. Or someone or the MM has to go afk and the minions die out and you have to start from scratch all over again.

dawnrain · Jan 02, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Yep, at this point of GW for PvE the ele is NOT the most effective class. But for the majority of players (excluding UBER farmers) the ele is still effective enough to be included in groups. PvE is NOT insanely difficult. Not having the most effective combination of classes will not prevent you from completing any mission or quest in PvE.

Take heart all you eles I hear the next update focuses on making mob AI more responsive to AoE hexes. I can hear all the SS necros crying now

Rayne Nightfyre · Jan 02, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

It's actually quite simple...if you're really a good innovative player, you'll find another way to efficiently kill mobs of enemies without mindlessly spamming Fire Storm, Echo, Meteor Shower etc. So for those who have trouble getting over the big bad AoE "nerf," go out there and experiment to find a way. To me, that is my favorite part of the game, experimenting with different skill builds. To help some of you out, here is what I prefer using for my Elementalist:

16 Fire(+4 from Sup Rune & Flame Eye)
12 Energy Storage(Minor Rune)
7-8 Water

1) Immolate
2) Fireball
3) Incendiary Bonds
4) Meteor
5) Glyph of Energy/Renewal(depending on situation)
6) Meteor Shower
7) Aura of Restoration
8) Fire Attunement

Yeah, you'll notice AoE panic if you do the usual spamming of skills that recharge quick. However, try this:
-before the battle, put up #7 & 8.
-Slap #3 on an enemy once they're grouped
-Cast #5, then #6...immediately followed by #4. Meteor knocks them down after the first Meteor Shower hit, long enough for the second hit to land.
They might run away on the third hit, but once they come back, hit 'em with #2 & 3 while your main damage dealers are recharging. Sometimes(depending on the situation) I like to make use of my second profession, and throw in skills like Conjure Phantasm, Phantom Pain, Sympathetic Visage, and other Illusion magic skills. Also another great skill to put in there is Deep Freeze, it'll slow them way down from running from your Meteor Shower.
That's about it, likely the enemies will be long gone at this point. Yeah, go ahead and critique the build, but I've had success with this build, and annoying my teammates with AoE panic has been minimal, so I like it.

So yeah, I agree ArenaNet did hurt the effectiveness of Eles in general, but that by no means they are useless. So instead of telling people how much you hate ArenaNet, go out and experiment with skill builds, and come up with something that works for you

[P.S. just wanted to add in that Mesmers totally rock in PvE groups, I have a build that I've came up with that is great for any situation, which targets the effectiveness of Attackers(W's and R's) and Casters(Mo's, E's, N's and Me's) So if you see me in War Camp spamming the typical LFG's, throw an invite over, you won't be disappointed!

] If you want me to give you my build, whisper me, and I'll gladly give it to ya

death fuzzy · Jan 02, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

i made an ele a while ago. got it to level 15, and quit. it was pointless

Genevieve Corbiere · Jan 02, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

I didn't read all postys, because some are just way too long. But I have an ele, and I mostly use fire. I switch back and forth between air and fire, and sometimes mix the two. If you get the arcane echo skill (i think that's what it's called?), and used meteor shower along with it, then dump fire storm on top of that, the monsters are being knocked down every few seconds. They can't exactly run away from it. Firestorm isn't that great anymore, but if used with meteor shower it does really well.

Rodgorts invocation is another good one. They can't "run" away from it. but maybe that's not even considered an aoe skill, but it hits up to 3 players.

Before people really consider eles "useless" I think they should do some research. No, they aren't as "cool" or whatever anymore, but they still do some heavy damage.

but that's just my opinion

Hell Marauder · Jan 02, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I think having nearly twice more energy and better energy management skills than other casting classes are good enough reasons to be an elementalist primary.

krammit · Jan 02, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Current popularized uses for E:

PvP
1. As a secondary <<reinforces your "why El?" point I guess>> W/E with gale is amazing
2. Earth El spike <<FTW in HOH>>
3. Have wards in Balanced builds, and generally good support.
4. Air spike <</vomit>>

PvE
1. As a fire dmg dealer. Mark of Rodgert + FDS, holy/smiting/etc. staves. Echo + Meteor Shower [even though it can still make mobs disengage]. immolate etc. <<usually discarded in favor of a curse or MM necro, but can be potent in large groups as SS doesn't stack>>

That's all the conventional uses for them, other than being a jerk and TKing your team with firestorm

Talon one · Jan 02, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

every character can knockdown from a distance, you just need elem secondary

isnt the real reason why you want to play a specific class its primary attribute (and the skills that need it) and the class specific armor (with superior runes)?
if you need a very high energy pool or cant be effective with only 12 air/water/earth/fire magic, you need to make elementalist your primary class.

coolsti · Jan 02, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosaj Noshnoj

Ok, here is my newest debate: Why use an ele? The main purpose of an ele is to nuke. (or at least thats what most people use ele's for). Later in the game, for SF, UW and FOW, most groups neglect to use ele's because necro's (MM and SS) are much more effective. Esepcially after the AoE nerf, nukers spells hurt the group as opposed to helping.

What is wrong with the above statement by the O.P. is the belief: "the main purpose of an ele is to nuke". Now, why is that? People have come to believe this because before the AOE patch, the nuking abilities of the E profession, in particular combined with arcane echo or other skills, was too powerful. And this mainly because the AI monsters would not run away from the extremely damaging AOE areas. It was the AOE patch that was supposed to fix this by making the nuking abilities of the elementalist less powerful. And in doing this, the AOE patch should have made GW players realize that the elementalist can do something else besides nuke!

Unfortunately, this is not the case. A lot of GW players still regard the Elementalist as a nuker and good for nothing else. And a lot of GW players can't think of anything else to do but complain about the AOE patch, claiming it ruined the game. And a lot of GW players out there still believe the only decent party is composed of 2 warriors to tank, two monks to heal the tanks, and two elementalists to nuke everyone.

It should be clear to the better PVE players of GW that the nuking abilities of the elementalist are not dead and gone. They just do less damage. The monsters will take some damage and then move away. Just like smart humans would. It should also be clear to the better players of GW that the elementalist is good for a lot more than nuking.

Long before the AOE patch I found using my elementalist as a fire nuker extremely boring, plus difficult due to the long cast times of the more powerful spells. So I switched to air elementalist with no nuking abilities and had a great time with this. Blinding, knocking down and weakening were the things I did most, and these were extremely helpful to my parties. And now I favor a combination of air and earth, using earth to help protect my party.

I must admit I don't play my elementalist very often, because I prefer mesmer and ranger. But when I do play elementalist, its as non-nuking air and earth.

Yogi's Pain · Jan 02, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

It should be clear to the better PVE players of GW that the nuking abilities of the elementalist are not dead and gone. They just do less damage. The monsters will take some damage and then move away. Just like smart humans would. It should also be clear to the better players of GW that the elementalist is good for a lot more than nuking.

Long before the AOE patch I found using my elementalist as a fire nuker extremely boring, plus difficult due to the long cast times of the more powerful spells. So I switched to air elementalist with no nuking abilities and had a great time with this. Blinding, knocking down and weakening were the things I did most, and these were extremely helpful to my parties. And now I favor a combination of air and earth, using earth to help protect my party.

You ever play a nuker in random arenas? You'll find that half the players still have no clue what to do if you drop a meteor shower on them.

You can still do more damage with fire than any of the other three in pve and most spells with aoe. Air may not be worthless, but its not the best choice by a long shot. You only play that if you want to go away from the rest of the crowd, not because you think its the most effective.

Earth is a different story. A LOT of things you can do as an earth ele that are very benificial to your party. But this is like smiting for monks, not the first thing you think of when you think of the profession but yet something they can do very well.

LifeInfusion · Jan 02, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

no its not. shield of judgement/signet of judgement knocks down at any range too.

I kind of forgot about smiting but Signet of Judgement is an elite... and only knocks down one. Plus the recharge is pretty bad IMO.

Shield of judgement = remove enchant or just NOT attack...

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Unfortunately, this is not the case. A lot of GW players still regard the Elementalist as a nuker and good for nothing else...And a lot of GW players out there still believe the only decent party is composed of 2 warriors to tank, two monks to heal the tanks, and two elementalists to nuke everyone.

...The monsters will take some damage and then move away. Just like smart humans would. ...the elementalist is good for a lot more than nuking.

Long before the AOE patch I found using my elementalist as a fire nuker extremely boring, plus difficult due to the long cast times of the more powerful spells. So I switched to air elementalist with no nuking abilities and had a great time with this. Blinding, knocking down and weakening were the things I did most, and these were extremely helpful to my parties. And now I favor a combination of air and earth, using earth to help protect my party.

But when I do play elementalist, its as non-nuking air and earth.

Amen. Another air and earth user. Fire is not dead and not the only use of a elementalist.

Samueldg · Jan 02, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Anyone else find it funny that the difference between Fire Elementalists being a 'must have' for 'serious' teams and being left completely in the cold is...Firestorm? Yes, Firestorm was absolutely the key to the PvE Fire Elementalist. Without it, he is nothing.

Do people even stop to think about these things before they say 'em?

Here's a dirty little secret for all of you - Necromancers were *always* stronger than Elementalists in PvE. Minionators are almost without question the most productive teammates you can have. Spiteful Spirit was always a great skill for the 'gather all the melee dorks on a tank and AoE them to death' strategy (held back solely by being in a terrible line). Blood nukes still aren't appreciated nearly enough - guess what, level 28-30 monsters have lots of armor, and blood nukes ignore that armor completely.

The only reason the other classes never got any respect is because people were too busy looking for the generic tank/heal/nuke trio that has existed in every game they've played and they wanted to reproduce it here. The 'nerf' to AoE nuking (which, practically, affected one skill in that trio) was apparently enough to get people to look for an alternative.

The only unfortunate part is that people are still sticking to the braindead instead of thinking for a moment that maybe, just maybe, there's a bit more to this game than one cookie cutter strat.

Peace,
-CxE

/signed

after the aoe nerf I did TWO things.. caped SOJ on my monk and flat out deleted my ele.

since I didnt really like the build anyway ( standing there mindlessly spaming AOE spells, "Oh I guess I should ECHO M storm again..Doe de doe")
I decided I would find something that could do the same amount or better damage over time and could play a role akin to caster.

so the ranger caped every elite in game.. I found barrage with 16 marks was pretty nice and nasty... then found fav winds works with it.. ( seemed to anywho) and wow thats two skill slots for the "nuke" that "nukes" better than fire storm ever could ( much faster damage over time) now I have four slots to pretty much do anything with. insert savage shot, flame trap, barbed trap and since I got all this expertise so I can spam barrage day and night and never run low on ene I guess ill use light reflexes so the monk aint draining his ene when im targeted..

ta da my ranger became a fun charicter and ... actually got INVITED in groups!!! I could interrupt the crappy stuff like mark of prot but generally spam all day with barrage... IF there was still an ele who thought meteor was the only spell and had to cast it on everything I could toss down two traps and ask the monk to stand on them with me and we could watch in safety the ele get spiked..

since I had a free slot I made my second attempt at a necromancer.. ( my first became so frustrating to play since NO ONE needed a nec, I deleted it.. much to my surprise coming from diablo I was sure everyone wanted a mass of minions on theyre team..) since then ive been playing almost constantly with my MM using death nova and virulence combos on the melee minions and watching the ranger ones pull a ranger spike worthy of "power of my rangers" team in TOMBS.

Ive still not found much use for a mezmer in pve. I tried a domination mez and IW mez. et al. its just not a fun char to play for me for some reason.. I think it has something to do with my hatred of heretics outside SF and surrounding areas.

Viruzzz · Jan 02, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

ele can tank so well you wont believe it. 16 earth. kinetic+armor of earth. 80 more 60+80 armor. 140 armor total. gg

i went in random arena with a mo/e with kinetic/armor of earth. i tanked 4 people form the toher team for 7 minutes after the rest of my team died(they got me cause i was typing

) 16attribute lightning orb was doing 27 damage to me. i couldn't win it though cause earth slowed my movement. but i swear if they hadn't kited me i could have wanded all 4 of them to death

a mesmer could have shut me down. but the warrior couldn't hit my armor of eath with his chop. backfire would have killed me.